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THEMA: Missing DRG shield in Fleischmann 868659
THEMA: Missing DRG shield in Fleischmann 868659
Dear friends,
Recently I have purchased the DRG wagon 86 8659 (special edition, featuring wagons from DGEG museum train) from Fleischmann. My surpise is that 86 8659 (3rd class) doesn`t feature the DRG logo in the middle of the wagon, just bellow the number of the wagon, between windows) It's fellows 86 8661 and 86 8795 do have the DRG logo.
I'm not sure if this is a defect of my concrete model, and therefore I have to return it to my dealer, or if this is correct.
Anybody else have the same wagon or knows how it is and can help me?
Thank you
Recently I have purchased the DRG wagon 86 8659 (special edition, featuring wagons from DGEG museum train) from Fleischmann. My surpise is that 86 8659 (3rd class) doesn`t feature the DRG logo in the middle of the wagon, just bellow the number of the wagon, between windows) It's fellows 86 8661 and 86 8795 do have the DRG logo.
I'm not sure if this is a defect of my concrete model, and therefore I have to return it to my dealer, or if this is correct.
Anybody else have the same wagon or knows how it is and can help me?
Thank you
Hello,
I do not have this particular car myself, but I made a search on http://www.spurweite-n.de and found a picture that shows that the car has the logo. Look on http://www.spurweite-n.de/content/NDBSearch/Ar...how=1&MaxCount=2
(I hope this mile-long link works - if not, copy+paste) If it is a picture of the actual model or a photo of the era 2 version is hard to see, but I assume it is correct.
But don't run to your dealer just yet - there's got to be another forum member who's got one of these cars and can get you a definitive answer to your Q.
Gregor
Beitrag editiert am 09. 01. 2008 23:27.
I do not have this particular car myself, but I made a search on http://www.spurweite-n.de and found a picture that shows that the car has the logo. Look on http://www.spurweite-n.de/content/NDBSearch/Ar...how=1&MaxCount=2
(I hope this mile-long link works - if not, copy+paste) If it is a picture of the actual model or a photo of the era 2 version is hard to see, but I assume it is correct.
But don't run to your dealer just yet - there's got to be another forum member who's got one of these cars and can get you a definitive answer to your Q.
Gregor
Beitrag editiert am 09. 01. 2008 23:27.
_ [Gast] - 10.01.08 00:10
This picture http://www.volldampf2000.de/bilder/flm868659.jpg of ebay.nl (
http://cgi.ebay.nl/fleischmann-N-868659-Donnerb...Z30659QQcmdZViewItem ) doesn`t feature the DRG logo.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/fleischmann-N-868659-Donnerb...Z30659QQcmdZViewItem ) doesn`t feature the DRG logo.
Hi zit-1,
how does the 1:1 DGEG museum wagon look like? Possibly the logo is missing on the original too. I did not find any picture of this wagon in the web to proove this.
The missing DRG logo may be correct for the early post-WWII era. The website http://www.eisenbahn-und-modellbau.de/lesenEMB14S23ff.htm (scroll down to the middle of the page) shows a BCi-28 with a lettering similar to your model. The picture was taken in 1949.
Edit:
http://homepages.fh-giessen.de/~hg14078/36380.htm shows another BCi-28 without the DRG eagle. According to the description this is the BCi-28 36380 of the Dampfbahn Fränkische Schweiz (DFS 24). It has been restored with the original DRG livery und number which was used before 1930.
I do not know whether the missing eagle is historically correct or not. May be it was left out due to reasons of political correctness. Moreover few restored cars show letterings where a lack of authenticity is covered by fantasy. However, the DFS wagon is an existing example for the livery of your Fleischmann model. So there is no need to bring it back...
Carsten
Beitrag editiert am 10. 01. 2008 10:07.
how does the 1:1 DGEG museum wagon look like? Possibly the logo is missing on the original too. I did not find any picture of this wagon in the web to proove this.
The missing DRG logo may be correct for the early post-WWII era. The website http://www.eisenbahn-und-modellbau.de/lesenEMB14S23ff.htm (scroll down to the middle of the page) shows a BCi-28 with a lettering similar to your model. The picture was taken in 1949.
Edit:
http://homepages.fh-giessen.de/~hg14078/36380.htm shows another BCi-28 without the DRG eagle. According to the description this is the BCi-28 36380 of the Dampfbahn Fränkische Schweiz (DFS 24). It has been restored with the original DRG livery und number which was used before 1930.
I do not know whether the missing eagle is historically correct or not. May be it was left out due to reasons of political correctness. Moreover few restored cars show letterings where a lack of authenticity is covered by fantasy. However, the DFS wagon is an existing example for the livery of your Fleischmann model. So there is no need to bring it back...
Carsten
Beitrag editiert am 10. 01. 2008 10:07.
Hi zit-1,
the large eagle below the windows was applied from 1938 on.
Up to this year the outfit your model shows was the normal outfit of all DRG waggons. And even after 1938 many waggons ran without the eagle.
It is still under discussion, which types of waggons got the eagle and which not. Without doubt the Schürzenwagen (e.g. Minitrix 15713) had the eagle. But e.g. the eagle is doubtable even for the cars of Fleischmann's FD Berlin - München (7914) delivered last year.
Greetings,
Udo.
the large eagle below the windows was applied from 1938 on.
Up to this year the outfit your model shows was the normal outfit of all DRG waggons. And even after 1938 many waggons ran without the eagle.
It is still under discussion, which types of waggons got the eagle and which not. Without doubt the Schürzenwagen (e.g. Minitrix 15713) had the eagle. But e.g. the eagle is doubtable even for the cars of Fleischmann's FD Berlin - München (7914) delivered last year.
Greetings,
Udo.
Hi Udo,
zit-1 and I were refering to the wagons with the DRG logo with the eagle in a circle surrounded by "Deutsche Reichsbahn". The same wagons but with the large eagle were part of another Fleischmann set (7911) from 2004. I dare to doubt the authenticity of this set.
Die GFN-Donnerbüchsen des DGEG-Museumszuges, um die es in #1 geht, tragen das "alte" runde DRG-Logo. Die Pleitegeierversion hat GFN im Set 7911 (BR62 + Donnerbüchsen) aus 2004 verarbeitet, das ist also eine ganz andere Baustelle. An deren Vorbildexistenz habe ich (ohne irgendwelche Belege, nur aus dem Bauch heraus) deutliche Zweifel.
Gruß, Carsten
zit-1 and I were refering to the wagons with the DRG logo with the eagle in a circle surrounded by "Deutsche Reichsbahn". The same wagons but with the large eagle were part of another Fleischmann set (7911) from 2004. I dare to doubt the authenticity of this set.
Die GFN-Donnerbüchsen des DGEG-Museumszuges, um die es in #1 geht, tragen das "alte" runde DRG-Logo. Die Pleitegeierversion hat GFN im Set 7911 (BR62 + Donnerbüchsen) aus 2004 verarbeitet, das ist also eine ganz andere Baustelle. An deren Vorbildexistenz habe ich (ohne irgendwelche Belege, nur aus dem Bauch heraus) deutliche Zweifel.
Gruß, Carsten
Hi Carsten,
thank you for your hint, I haven't read carefully enough zit-1's posting. From "DRG logo in the middle of the wagon, just bellow the number of the wagon, between windows" I read "DRG logo in the middle of the wagon, just bellow the windows of the wagon". Sorry.
Danke für den Hinweis, habe mich verlesen!
Grüße,
Udo.
thank you for your hint, I haven't read carefully enough zit-1's posting. From "DRG logo in the middle of the wagon, just bellow the number of the wagon, between windows" I read "DRG logo in the middle of the wagon, just bellow the windows of the wagon". Sorry.
Danke für den Hinweis, habe mich verlesen!
Grüße,
Udo.
zit_1 [Gast] - 10.01.08 19:57
Hello everybody,
After reading your comments and watching the e-bay picture I'm pretty sure the wagon is correct and I won't return it.
I have also made some search in the internet and I have found in youtube a very interesting video featuring a historic train from de DGEG:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4D8L-xAF-4&feature=related
In the video can be seen the baggage coach with number 109 757, the same of the 868795 ref. from Fleischmann. After it follow two 3rd class coaches. neither of them with the same serial numbers of the scale models. But the second one doesn't have the logo! I don't know if the museum has other coaches of the same type, or if simply there is a mistake in the numbers of the scale models, but it is clear that there are (at least in the museum, I don't know historically) some of these cars without the logo.
Thank you for your help
After reading your comments and watching the e-bay picture I'm pretty sure the wagon is correct and I won't return it.
I have also made some search in the internet and I have found in youtube a very interesting video featuring a historic train from de DGEG:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4D8L-xAF-4&feature=related
In the video can be seen the baggage coach with number 109 757, the same of the 868795 ref. from Fleischmann. After it follow two 3rd class coaches. neither of them with the same serial numbers of the scale models. But the second one doesn't have the logo! I don't know if the museum has other coaches of the same type, or if simply there is a mistake in the numbers of the scale models, but it is clear that there are (at least in the museum, I don't know historically) some of these cars without the logo.
Thank you for your help
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