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THEMA: Lenz Gold Mini (10410) speed unstability
THEMA: Lenz Gold Mini (10410) speed unstability
Vadim - 09.12.09 19:16
Explanation:
I have Lenz 10410 decoder established at N-Scale Loco Roco - BR 150.
In some narrow low region of loco speeds, this Loco runs not so stable, their speed varies at chaotic order near mean value (about 30%), so that pulling cars kick one another and decoupling can occur.
I tried to remove LC motor pre-filter, - No effect.
I tried to change repeat rate (CV9) - No effect
I tried to change motor type CV, PVM value CV or duty cycle CV - it becames worse or no effect.
This decorer havent PID settings CV. (in applied instruction)
I mean that internal PID settings are not stable in combination with momentum of this BR-150 fly wheel .
Another loco runs well with this decoder.
This loco runs well with another decoder (Zimo MX620 and UhlenBrock Comfort Mini) but ZIMO decoder larger than Lenz one and doesnt allow to close Loco body, and UhlenBrock havent Constant Bracking Distance CV.
My friend has the same unsolvable problem, but with Loco - InterMountain-SD45 and decoder from "Kuhn".
Question:
How can I remove this unstability?
Who encounter with the same problem?
Please tell about it.
----------
Thanks,
Vadim
I have Lenz 10410 decoder established at N-Scale Loco Roco - BR 150.
In some narrow low region of loco speeds, this Loco runs not so stable, their speed varies at chaotic order near mean value (about 30%), so that pulling cars kick one another and decoupling can occur.
I tried to remove LC motor pre-filter, - No effect.
I tried to change repeat rate (CV9) - No effect
I tried to change motor type CV, PVM value CV or duty cycle CV - it becames worse or no effect.
This decorer havent PID settings CV. (in applied instruction)
I mean that internal PID settings are not stable in combination with momentum of this BR-150 fly wheel .
Another loco runs well with this decoder.
This loco runs well with another decoder (Zimo MX620 and UhlenBrock Comfort Mini) but ZIMO decoder larger than Lenz one and doesnt allow to close Loco body, and UhlenBrock havent Constant Bracking Distance CV.
My friend has the same unsolvable problem, but with Loco - InterMountain-SD45 and decoder from "Kuhn".
Question:
How can I remove this unstability?
Who encounter with the same problem?
Please tell about it.
----------
Thanks,
Vadim
Hi Vadim!
The problem with the digitaliesierten BR 150, very poorly is this locomotive in digital mode runs. I have 3 pieces all three locomotives go very badly, after upgrading the CV - values.
Thomas
The problem with the digitaliesierten BR 150, very poorly is this locomotive in digital mode runs. I have 3 pieces all three locomotives go very badly, after upgrading the CV - values.
Thomas
Thanks, Thomas.
But that do You think about the reason of this trouble?
I think that internal PID constant of Lenz gold mini(art. N. 10410 ) in combination of such custom inertial momentum of BR 150 fly wheels leads to unstability in regulating system .
This idea is approved by fact that another decoder (Zimo MX620) works good with this loco.
----------------
Vadim
But that do You think about the reason of this trouble?
I think that internal PID constant of Lenz gold mini(art. N. 10410 ) in combination of such custom inertial momentum of BR 150 fly wheels leads to unstability in regulating system .
This idea is approved by fact that another decoder (Zimo MX620) works good with this loco.
----------------
Vadim
Also You can see this Roco BR-150 running at my draft layout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhPnnM0xedU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhPnnM0xedU
Vadim, I think you may be right. Maybe someone has experience with the combination of Tran and Roco BR150? With a little luck, the Tran behaves like the Zimo but is small enough to fit.
I do not have any BR150 myself, sorry. I have been lucky with Tran and other locos.
For the SD45: What about Digitrax?
Harald.
I do not have any BR150 myself, sorry. I have been lucky with Tran and other locos.
For the SD45: What about Digitrax?
Harald.
Thanks, Harald.
Digitrax already ordered, and we ll test it.
As to Tran concerns: I think this decoder havent assymetrical constant bracking distance abilities.
As i know, this ability have only Lenz, Zimo, some LokPilot, and some Digitrax (without ABC only when trottle stop) decoders.
--------
Vadim.
Digitrax already ordered, and we ll test it.
As to Tran concerns: I think this decoder havent assymetrical constant bracking distance abilities.
As i know, this ability have only Lenz, Zimo, some LokPilot, and some Digitrax (without ABC only when trottle stop) decoders.
--------
Vadim.
Arnold_Huebsch - 12.12.09 12:52
Hi Vadim!
Some of the older Roco designs have motor problems. Lenz is not a good chjoice as their decoders are known be be chalanged by difficult designs. I have done a converter board for the ÖBB 1044 / Re4/4 which fits nicely in the 150 as well. I have good results with a Tran DCX74, DCX75 will work as well
http://amw.huebsch.at/images/Produkte/Adapter/150_DCX74.jpg
Some of the older Roco designs have motor problems. Lenz is not a good chjoice as their decoders are known be be chalanged by difficult designs. I have done a converter board for the ÖBB 1044 / Re4/4 which fits nicely in the 150 as well. I have good results with a Tran DCX74, DCX75 will work as well
http://amw.huebsch.at/images/Produkte/Adapter/150_DCX74.jpg
Torsten Lang - 12.12.09 16:06
Hello,
I bought two Roco 150 this year. One of those I already equippted with a decoder, a Zimo MX620. The 150 runs absolutely smoothly, no problems at all...
With kind regards,
Torsten
I bought two Roco 150 this year. One of those I already equippted with a decoder, a Zimo MX620. The 150 runs absolutely smoothly, no problems at all...
With kind regards,
Torsten
Hi,
I have also had bad experiencies with a Lenz mini in conjunction with a Roco TEE VT 11.5 (new series). The motor control was extremely poor:
- too high minimum speed
- unstable motor speed
- overshooting regulation (fighting against the flywheel)
Regards, Peter
I have also had bad experiencies with a Lenz mini in conjunction with a Roco TEE VT 11.5 (new series). The motor control was extremely poor:
- too high minimum speed
- unstable motor speed
- overshooting regulation (fighting against the flywheel)
Regards, Peter
Thanks to all!
As to tran decoder concerns: Tran decoder havent any constant bracking distance abilities for ABC assymetry braking principle.
To Torsten:
I have a question: Did You mil body of Roco BR150?
This loco havent any free space for Zimo MX 620.
--------
Vadim
As to tran decoder concerns: Tran decoder havent any constant bracking distance abilities for ABC assymetry braking principle.
To Torsten:
I have a question: Did You mil body of Roco BR150?
This loco havent any free space for Zimo MX 620.
--------
Vadim
Now i replaced Lenz gold mini by Zimo MX 620 at Roco BR-150.
The behavior becomes better, but some speed unstability due to old motor with different turns on core poles - still remains.
I estimate this improvement as 2 times.
Zimo CV are also optimized
For sampling Frequensy and measuring time = 9
CV9=99
for P, and I values = 9
CV56 = 99
CV10=252 (EMF is ON not affect on stability)
CV 58=255(EMF is ON on low speeds)
CV 113 = 255 (High EMF cutoff )
-------
Vadim
The behavior becomes better, but some speed unstability due to old motor with different turns on core poles - still remains.
I estimate this improvement as 2 times.
Zimo CV are also optimized
For sampling Frequensy and measuring time = 9
CV9=99
for P, and I values = 9
CV56 = 99
CV10=252 (EMF is ON not affect on stability)
CV 58=255(EMF is ON on low speeds)
CV 113 = 255 (High EMF cutoff )
-------
Vadim
Torsten Lang - 10.01.10 20:01
Zitat
To Torsten:
I have a question: Did You mil body of Roco BR150?
This loco havent any free space for Zimo MX 620.
sorry for my late Answer. I cut the PCB in the 150 into three parts and took out the middle part I didn't need. The decoder (MX620) was then mounted in the free space with the contacts to one side of the loco. As the PCB is hold by two screws this rude method works quite well. If you like I may take a photo.
With kind regards,
Torsten
Thanks, Torsten.
I already install MX620 too,
Now i have less instability.
I also change EMF curve and sampling rate for best results!
----
Thanks,
Vadim
I already install MX620 too,
Now i have less instability.
I also change EMF curve and sampling rate for best results!
----
Thanks,
Vadim
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