THEMA: How to remove MOTOR's STOP

Hi Vadim,
your Roco 150 - is it the one you digitised before (other thread)? Do I understand you right that this is from older production (older motor)?

I don't have any experience with older models, but I would expect that this should not happen.

Regarding current models typical lubrication interval is 50h and the manufacturers don't tell much about cleaning the commutator.

In case of one older model (other brand than Roco) it looked as if the brushes had been contaminated with oil. In this case the oil behaved like glue smearing around the dust from the brushes and filling up the isolation between the commutator contacts. I cleaned the commutator with a toothpick and exchanged the brushes.

It may also happen that the commutator contacts have sharp edges increasing the abrasion. I already have read a hint of using a small screwdriver with a sharp blade to carefully make these sharp edges round.

At least with my current Roco locos I didn't observe such problems yet.

With kind regards,
Torsten

Hi Vadim,

Regarding Roco 150 - I also do have such one. After a while of standing still, the motor intermittantly takes excessive current and in a dark room you can see the arcs through the bottom hole of the body shell. Maybe the commutator is sharp and scratchy. The bottom hole is idiotic because the axle sprays dirt and oil directly into the heart of the motor.

Regarding ICE1: If the brushes lose contact to the commutator, check following:

a. the brushes' springs - if there was heavy commutator arching they could have been annealed (German: ausgeglüht)

b. the commutator body, metal parts and gaps - depending on the age and construction series of the motor either the gaps are solid plastics or open. The motor version that has solid gaps tends to lose contact to the brushes if metal is scraped off in operation - this is normal. The motor version that has open gaps tends to arcs, excessive current and short circuits as gaps become filled with a mud of graphite/coal dust and oil.

If a graphite brush is contaminated with oil, the best way to refurbish it is to heat it up on the tip of a soldering iron, until it stops smoking - the grease will evaporate.

Regards,
Peter W.

Thanks to all for detailed describtion!

But I still has a questions:

1) How long does such motors work up to servicing commutator?
2) How long can one brush work up to being changed?

3) How  I can remove these negative properties of these two above mentioned drawbacks (with filled or with empty gaps between commutator contacts)?

4) May be, it is worth to change motors in all locomotives into FaulHarber or Maxxon?

-----------------

What do You know about resources of these motors?


-----------------
Thanks,
Vadim.

Hi Vadim,

as many other railroaders, I have refurbished a lot of lokos with Faulhaber-/ Maxon-Motors.

The lifetime of such motors will be more than 3000h, if You pay attention to some rules:
- the motor-current should be a low as possible.
-the rpm should be 2/3rd of the max rpm
-a fly-wheel is recommended, so that no high start- /stop-forces act on the windings

Have a look on the webpages of Faulhaber and Maxon for further technical details.

Greetings Michael Peters

Hi Vadim,
I bought some motor-kits from SB-Modellbau recently (2x for Arnold 169, 1x for Arnold 119, 1x for Arnold 041 with smoke and sound).

They have precious metal brushes (in contrast to the graphite brushes of older motors) which leads to operation times between 1000..20000h (unfortunately Maxon does not specify this more precise).

The brushes are not user-serviceable, so when they are worn out the motor has to be exchanged. You should keep this in mind as in most cases the motor has to be fixed with glue.

Pros: The motors run very smooth and do not need much power. Furthermore, they deliver a very clean emf (electromotive force) signal.

Cons: The motors have a very low moment of inertia, in cases where no flywheel can be mounted (169) the configuration of the decoder's control loop can cause headaches (believe me).

The MX620 are known to have problems with the Maxon motors (I talked to the software developer recently). The motors are very sensitive to load changes, in case where flywheels are mounted I configured the MX620 for constand feedback (CV 10, 58 and 113), in case of my two 169 I could not even use the same setup for both locos, as either in one or the other the control loop tended to swing up.

If you buy such kits check the motors in advance before glueing them into place. I had one motor where the resistance was much too low and additionally one of the bearings was defective (so the motor went hot and depending on direction and speed the motor gave ugly rattling noises).

In case of the 169 and the 119 I combined the kit with a custom-made replacement worm kit from Stefan Glasmachers (2:1 transmission). The 119 needed another (slightly faster) motor which was delivered by SB instead of the standard motor for no extra cost (same for the custom made worm kit). So both loco types reach realistic speed and can be running more slowly.

I tried to find out more about the motors SB was delivering, but the part numbers are not in Maxon's database, so I suppose these are custom products made for SB.

With kind regards,
Torsten

Thanks to all for such detailed description!!!

If possible, please give internet link to stores, where i can choose and buy these motors.

And now, new portion of  my Questions:
1) By the way, is it difficult to adopt loco for these Maxxon and Faulhaber motors?
2) Does these motors have  protruded axles from both sides of motor?
3) Let us return to  usual, factory implemented motors (Roco, Trix):
    3-a) How dependable are these motors ?  
    3-b)Which time resource these motors have?
4) Is it usual for these motors to have such above mentioned drawbacks?

--------
Thanks,
Vadim,

Hi Vadim,
you could have easily Googled the Shops because both, SB and Glasmachers, sell their products directly to customers. Here are the links:

http://www.glasmachers.com/
http://www.sb-modellbau.com/

Note that SB currently has a 10% exhibition discount.

1) That differs. Take a look at the column "nur Fräszeit". If there is given an amount of work units, than you need to do some milling.
2) Yes. But no need to think about when you buy complete kits.
3) Well, no general information. There are "maintenance free" motors around, others have exchangeable brushes, the bearing may differ.
4) Sorry, no experience yet...

May I give you the following advice: For the beginning avoid models where major milling work is needed on metal parts. If you don't have the right (professional) tools this may result in a lot of work and frustration.

In case of my 169 work was quite easy, in case of the 041 I just needed to break out one of the original motor carriers, and in case of the 119 no milling at all was needed.

I have planned to put a few howto's online when I find the time to write it down and to disassemble the models again and make some fotos.

With kind regards,
Torsten

Hi,

I'd suggest to carefully select a coreless motor conversion if - and only if - the motor power output stands in relation with the mass of the loco model. Otherwise motor constantly operates on the limit - that means unsatisfactory pulling force and velocity, and possibly excessive heating.

Some earlier Faulhaber conversion kits offered by sb Modellbau struggled with motor power, this has been improved by using stronger Maxxon motor series - however at cost of flywheel effect because as a matter of output power Maxxon motors do have stronger brushes that means faster deceleration due to higher friction on the commutator.

Regards,
Peter W.

Thanks, Peter and Torsten!

Now i have another question:
How about dependability of other loco parts - especially gears?
As i think, the LifeTime of (for example, Trix ) gears is much more long than lifetime of an usual Trix or Roco motor? Is it right?

--------
Thanks,
Vadim

Hi Vadim.



Yes, under normal conditions

Greetings Michael Peters

Thanks, Michael!

May be changing of Grapite brushes into gold or palladium ones may help?

--------
Thanks,
Vadim

Hi Vadim,

You can try it, but the quality of the commutator may by too poor (edges of copper blades).

I think, You shouldn't spend too much time with these old constructions, for little money You can buy motors made by Mashima or the high price Faulhaber- /Maxon- motors (twice of Mashima, 1.5 of the original ones).

Greetings Michael Peters

Thanks, Michael.
But Maxon motors sufficiently expensive, if i ll order KITs.
May be there are stores, who sell it separately?

Or it's worth to buy  a kit ?

-----------
Thanks,
Vadim