THEMA: Who use BRUSHLESS MOTORS? Please explain HOW?

You mean Faulhaber or Maxxon motors? I have some Minitrix-models with this motortype.

http://www.sb-modellbau.com/index.php?language=en

You don´t need special loco-decoders, modern decoders have a high control  frequency or it is possible to change it.

Thanks,

Maxxon and FaulHaber motors has brushes.
The brushes is very precise and contain  expensive nonferrous metalls.
Therefore these motors are more dependable.

I mean another motors, which havent any brushes.
These motors has reverse constructions:
The magnet is attached inside rotor, and coils with wires attached to the body.
Some transistors and special circuit needed to apply current and to control speed of this motor.

Therefore we have no brushes and extra-  dependability of such motors!

What do You know about application of these motors onto  model locos ?

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Thanks,
Vadim

Hi Vadim,,

These motors are high quality industrial parts and mostly not sold at toy-store-with-technical-department or we-do-only-stock-mainstream-manufacturers type of stores, but dedicated model railroad stores might stock a few of them or order them on request.

However the motor manufactureres just sell the naked motors, so there is a specialized market for providing conversion kits and services.

Faulhaber runs smoother and more silent but has less torque power.
Maxon should preferrably not be used w/o flywheel in conjunction with decoders, as the motor might play prevalent motor control frequencies like a loudspeaker.

Generally, coreless motors will cause some chirping noise - depending on the decoder's frequency range and control algorythm, users with high audible sensistivity might feel uncomfortable with this. That's why quality decoders operate on 20 kHz or above, and some of them (like Zimo) utilize programmatical algorithms to rearrange the control pulses in order to keep the emitted audible frequencies as low as possible (Keyword: "spread spectrum").

Regards, Peter

Hi Vadim,

You mean real "brushless" motors like stepper motors in Floppy drives? Märklin uses this type of motor and call it "softdrive" or "c-sinus". These stepper motors of cause needs special electronic or decoders with support these motor type.

They are a good motor type for RC Aeroplanes. But IMHO not for trains. And I hope that no producer uses it in N-Scale...

Elvis

ZIMO (www.zimo.at) supports Märklin c-sinus...

but only together with special PCBs in the Märklin locos...

Elvis

Indeed, brushless motors have nothing to do with the Faulhaber or Maxon coreless DC motors commonly used in our field. Basically, the rotor of a brushless motor is a permanent magnet, and a dedicated electronic circuit is used to inverse the magnetic field of the stator, thus making it turn.
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_DC_electric_motor

Here are a few examples:
   http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/FastSearch.html?sea...che&initial=true

Its advantage of superior power-to-weight ratio is why it's commonly used in RC flight - but this is hardly a concern in model trains, where high weight is even desired.

Greetings,

Andreas

Hi Vadim,

I've just read your new comment. Forget it! Electronical commutation isn't achieved by just by adding some transistors, you need a dedicated control chip for this. The main caveat is: You struggle getting Back-EMF out of that circuit.

In H0 gauge, the Marklin company offers/offered a few types of electronically commutated can motors that have static rotors (Keywords: Sinus motor, Sinus drive).

The older ones became famous due to extremely high pricing and low performance improvement compared to coreless brush motors - some models even run worse. Also, Marklin became more famous due to introduction of the proprietary 21-pin MTC connector in conjunction with the Sinus motors, which they topped with futher incompatibility by removing safety resistors from the loco boards. This caused DCC decoders and/or loco electronics to burn off when using decoder brands other than Marklin or ESU.

Furthermore, the electronical design was crappy: To enable digital operation, they implemented a circuit that reads in a PWM signal generated by a standard loco decoder and syncronizes the Sinus motor's speed on that signal. However, decoder's back-EMF control was required to be turned off at all because there was no EMF signal present in the circuit.

Grüße, Peter W.

http://www.faulhaber.com/n169933/n.html

Thanks to all.
I think that C-Sinus (or softdrive ) motors would be extremely difficult to use at N-Scale.

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Vadim

http://www.kunadbahn.de/html/i_drehstrom_ori.htm

Gruß Jens

@4
brushless motor is not the same as a stepper motor. while a stepper motor is capable for accurate positionning, a brushless motor is just a "normal" dc motor which has the commutator equipment to rotate the magnetic field not (electro-mechanically) on the rotor, but (electronically) in the motor case. Thus it is a very smooth and silent drive, found in every floppy or cd drive.

And yes, it would be a good but expensive drive for an N scale loco.

Felix

Brushless motors replaced all the types of brush motors in the model airplane scene.
But you need special controllers.

I dont know why there is no N-Scale model using brushless drive.
Or is it?

The price of a faulhaber drive is so high, u can easyly build a brushless for
But I dont know about the physical and technical specifications in that miniature size, means if it is possible to buld an outrunner or inrunner brushless drive in this dimensions and voltage range.

Thomas