THEMA: MINITRIX BR 185 Digital problem

Hallo Vato,

hast du den Decoder schon mal umgedreht eingebaut?

Viele Grüße
Herbert
www.herberts-n-projekt.de

wenn der Motor analog dreht mit Strom direkt am Motor ohne Platine, dann versuchen den polyswitch zu überbrücken ( grün, 4 x 4 mm )
Gruß Gunter

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@Herbert

was du meinst?

Hi Vatato,

could you repeat that in English or Italian, please?
Automated Translation did not get it right.
It says, <<bought Minitrix "br 185" with the ability to capture>> This is cheese, like we say - it's crappy.

So how could we help you?

I'd guess you mean a loco with so called "Schnittstelle". Is there a 6-pole or already the newer 14-pole connector? If it is a 6-pole, the decoder could possible inserted the wrong way round - that's what Herbert ment.

However, with DC on the tracks, the loco is running? Or do you mean, with the DC plug it works correctly?
With DCC on the track, you are measuing 10 Volts on the motor but the motor does not turn? At which speed step did you measure 10 Volts? What is the track voltage measuring? What is the setting of CV5?

Unfortunately your posting lacks of essential Information, like: Catalogue number of loco, decoder make and model and version (CV8, CV7), which command station are you using (Lenz, Digitrax?) and so on.

Regards, Peter

Hey vatato!

He said: If the motor runs when put power directly on the motor contacts not the pcb between then check out the Polyswitch.

Have a close look on the pcb inside the loco. There you should find a small greenish square part. This is sort of an overload fuse and is notourious for malfunctions. This part feels the amount of power draw and if it means too much it shuts down the loco in order to protect it.
You can discard  or bridge it by a small piece of wire and then check if the problem is cured.
If it is not we have to go further in finding the cause, ok!

Best regards
Mathi

Hi,

but beware! Pull the decoder out before directly feeding the motor with DC power on the poles.
In case the resettable fuse (polyswitch) is conducting though, the decoder will be fed reverse. This ain't healthy.

Regards, Peter W.

Hi everyone

thanks for helping me
here is more info

1, loco have a NEM651 connector
2. decoder is inserted correctly (time to time loco runs)
3. here is model name,Minitrix Traxx Class 185 MRCE/Rail4Chem/MGW Locomotive DCC Ready, I think it is from starter set, link to image of the loco: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/zM4AAOSwq7JT4YbQ/$_57.JPG

4. decoder is digitrax dz126in
5. 10V is a start voltage
6. command center is MRC
7. I try dc with out pcboard
8. I do not change cv5

Hi Mathi

I check pcb board and no polyswitch on it



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this is my loco and pcb


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Hi!

Your pcb pics show the backside but the switch is on the upper.
BTW: the decoder shown is not a DZ but a german Minitrixx 6838, wich is capable in DCC and SX.

Something makes me wonder: What do you mean with 10V start voltage?
Please read CV 2 and CV5 and tell the values. Usually should wotk with each engine to set CV2 on 4 (each value from 0 to 15) and CV5 on 127 (full speed). Does the MRC show Volts instead of CV values?

Best regards
Mathi

pcb picture is from the ebay, but my locomotive have same board. I use sprog III to set up a start voltage at 10v, not a mrc, with mrc I only control layout and locos

I will try to read a cv-s today and I will let you know for tomorrow, bcouse now i'm working

OK, Mathi, I ask my son to reset a decoder and and now cv2 is a factory default (0)

ok but the pic shows the other side. You may look on the pcb when the hood is off and hopefully find this darn green box.
I've no expe. with the sprog and for me only the CV values are worth while the voltage is just not relevant.
On the other hand you stated the decoder works fine in other locos the issue sits in the loco itself.
Well, don't forget to try the motor solely when ataching analogue power to its contacts directly and let us know if it runs or not.

Best regards
Mathi

ok, thanks Mathi, I will try today. my friend tell me, some minitrix locos is differently wired and not compatible with a dcc

Hi Mathi

yesterday i check my locomotive with standart dc with pc board and loco runs smooth, with no problems

after I install the dcc decoder and run with sprogIII, runs very well, with no problems, but when I switch back to mrc, problem is same, only lights works, loco does not run

Hmmm, very hard to say whats wrong with it. Seems so the MRC has got an issue.
How do you power both devices, how much AC or DC input volts?
Can you reset the MRC to see if it helps?
And another issue: occasionally is the minitrix connector on the pcb prone to failure. the often you put a plug in the more its got no contact, or bad contact or some contact. Sometimes the motor works but not the light or vice versa. So many guys tend to solder the decoder pins directly on the pcb and throw out the connector.
Well, as I claimed before: hard to say from remote but if it works with one cab it should work with each cab.
Hey, you live in Brooklyn, ain't there a chance to step into trainworlds shop and ask for some help?

Best regards
Mathi

Sounds really strange. Either the MRC has a blown output stage (unsymmetrical track power), a timing variation (however unlikeliy, that a DZ does not like a MRC) or maybe the address is in some constist/multi-unit mode on the MRC?

Regards, Peter W.

Yeah, and it's more than weird if the MRC is doing its job well with any other loco.

Hi Peter

same decoder works well with mrc  and fox vale diesel loc

I change address many times, with no results, for sprogIII everything works, for mrc nothing :) and strange is I have problem only with this loc, I have 3 or 4 locomotives from minitrix with dz decoders and have no problem

Its becoming harder and harder to say something about this special issue.
How is another decoder doing in this certain loco?

same problem, i change 2 of them from the different locomotives, my friend tell me to try german made dcc decoder,

Well then this loco is the problem if other decoders don't work either.
I don't think a european brand decoder will make any change because I've lots of DZ decoders even in germann locos and they all work pretty good.
Where did you purchase this loco? I mean this issue will be covered by the waranty!
When someone here puts a decoder in this loco he usually removes the two coils and bridges them by a wire, same to the "green part" and cuts out the capacitor between both motor contacts on the pcb to prevent interferences which ca disturb the decoders job.
This could be the reason for a wrong decoder behavior but mostly the motor then runs anyway.

Best regards
Mathi

Hi!

The lights are on but nobody's home?
The jumpers for catenary are set ok?
When I scrolled this thread back to your entry no. 7 you stated:
-- 2. decoder is inserted correctly (time to time loco runs)--
Does that mean it starts and stops eraticly? If you can answer Yes this brings me back to the lovely green polyswitch on the pcb. Please check this out! Before destroying it you could bridge it by a short wire to see if it makes any difference.

Best regards
Mathi

Hi Mathi, jumpers for catenary is ok.  light's is on and correct, if loco starts,it runs smooth, when I switch power off and again on, loco does not start,

but.... I can operate from the computer (sprog III) with no problem... with MRC - not....  have no idea...

Check the "greeny"!
How much power do you feed to the MRC and to the sprog? Probably the power source of MRC brings significantly more volts and causes the greeny to switch off, I can't tell but you can.
And watch out, the catenary is not allowed with DCC!

Best regards
Mathi

catenary is off :) I will check today voltages

Hi Mathi

yesterday I change dz with zimo mx622n and everything works fine, I can control loco with  SPROG and MRC without problems , very strange :)

Hi Everyone,
the Digitrax Decoder are popular in the USA, I tried them, too, on my german Locos.
Verdict: they SUCK!!! They run smoothly only on certain models and are hard to adjust.
Even though that's not specific to your problem, but I had similar experiences.
Now I use Digitrax only for light controls etc (but even there can't dim them).
Alex

Well, my two cents:

I'va a lot of DZ123 and 125 (and almost each US Kato and atlas got the DCC board)because they where cheap an small enough to fit into german models as well.
I never had any probs with them and would never say they suck. They are doing their jobs fine in almost every loco but ther motor management ist no longer state of the art.
So I would conclude this decoder has an issue you can return it to Digitrax for a new one, explaining that its not working properly with an MRC system while others do , wich is very uncommon.
Its good to hear that you solved it so far!

Best regards
Mathi

Hi Mathi

I install this decoder on the fox vale locomotive, and its works well :)

I never had problem before with digitrax decoders, I have installed many of them on the japanase andgerman models (old trix and fleishmann)

Well bvatato,

I did the same to many european locos and the DZs are doing fine.
So I don't have a clou whats wrong with it.
There's just one thing that jumps into my mind, based on experiences and this ist not so few:
Did you stick the decoder the right way into the connector?
If you put it in the wrong way the lamps will light on but motor, now wrongly connected to both of the lamps output the motor is getting not enough power to run.
You can check this out if you stick the decoder turned in and there's not a danger to destroy anything. Just a try!
And there's still an open question: Wahat did you do with this green squared box, did you bridge it?
The reason is that probably this polyswitch shuts down because its "thinking" the DZ decoder draws more current as the zimo does.

Best regards
Mathi

Hi Mathi

decoder was installed correctly I check it many times, I don't bridge the green box. maybe dz draw more current then zimo, who knows :)

Ok, the "greeny" is my ultimate guess. I would say bridge it and check again because I'm still running out of suggestions.

Good luck and best regards
Mathi

On the other hand you are lucky: a Zimo decoder works pretty good with this engine and the DZ is good for the other loco.
what can we say?

what we can say? :)

Use DZ with American and German decoders with German locos :)

Yeah,

I would say DZ works better in an Atlas, Kato or Spectrum steamer, but german decoders are doing it either.
DZs work really good even with modern german locos which have good 5-polers and working flywheels. They can be problematic with old 3-polers and no flywheels while they are pretty good in older Atlas and Kato diesel from the same age about 20 years old.
Just my opinion but other might say they are crap anyway.
A Zimo is an outstanding decoder and barely comparable with any other brand even though the pricing is considerably higher.
Modern US engines run phantastic even on analog track and I would say each decoder looks good in it but top-of-the-line decoders just only need some dirt from under your fingernails to perform nicely.

Best regards
Mathi

German made electronics as always have much higher quality the Americans

I have installed dz on the minitrix br17 (1984), and have problem with low speed, but rest is fine.

and if you need a good quality, you have to pay:) after this, I think I will buy only German made decoders like zimo or dh

Good thinking, you can't go wrong with it!
The mtx BR17 is a good example for an old construction 3-poler, no flywheels, and with its large driving wheels it was made for fast trains but not as a switcher.
Even with super decoders you can't tease out super creeping capabilities!

I'm using br17 with my orient express set and love it, it was my first German model in n scale :)